On this episode of The Natural Plastic Surgeon…
You are listening to The Natural Plastic Surgeon Podcast. I'm Dr. Daniel Barrett, Board-Certified Plastic and Reconstructive Surgeon located right here in Beverly Hills. I specialize in cosmetic surgery of the face, nose, breast and body. This podcast is dedicated to those deciding if plastic surgery is right for them and revealing all the latest beauty secrets. Let’s get started.
00:50 DR. BRIGHT IS DIRECTOR OF GENOMICS AND META METABOLOMICS
Dr. Barrett: Hey everybody, it’s Dr. Barrett. We're on the second part of this podcast. We have Dr. Bright, Dr. Taylor Bright actually. He's the director of Genomics and Meta, Metabolomics with, associated with Wild Health CBD. And he's a serial biomedical entrepreneur with a passion to drive new technologies out of the research lab and into the clinic, which is awesome, because we always hear about all this crazy stuff that goes on in the lab. But it takes a real smart person to, kind of, translate that from, from laboratory to bedside. So, Dr. Bright, thanks for being on the show. Dr. Bright: Thank you all for having me. I really appreciate it. Dr. Barrett: So, I'm excited that, you, you have more of the science, but we now, we just got off the phone with Dr. Dawson, who's the founder and CEO, and I want to, kind of, dive into what you do, and in terms of your role with the company and, and, and with the products and what you're, what you're working on. Dr. Bright: Sure. So, as you noted, I, kind of, in the CSIRO biomedical entrepreneurial space, very interested in taking things out of the research lab and getting them into the clinic. And so I had an opportunity to do that with CBD, with Dr. Dawson and the Wild Health, with Wild Health Clinic and our Wild Health CBD. And so very interested in taking advantage of that opportunity and bringing a very science-forward, medical-forward focus to CBD. You know, an area we hear a lot about on the Internet and just, every, CBD is everywhere these days. I mean a lot of it is, a lot of it is unsubstantiated or untested and so we were very interested in bringing that science, medical-based focus to it. And that's, kind of, where we start. We start with a focus on the clinic and how we can bring the, the purest product to the patient. 02:02 BIGGEST MYTH ABOUT CBD Dr. Barrett: Okay, I'm gonna go off-script here because I'm now I'm curious. What is a, what is, like, one of the, what is, like, one of the biggest myths regarding CBD, that is just not absolutely true? Dr. Bright: So I would say the, the biggest myth from CBD, just the one you see out there the most, is that it quote-unquote cures cancer. So CBD could certainly be useful in certain situations, certain cancer situations, but there is just no, no evidence that it does that. And the, the amount that you see that, kind of, out in, in, on the Internet specifically, but also just, kind of, in the current zeitgeist just creates this, this...it's too it's too big, it's too big of shoes for CBD to fill, so to speak. And people put too much into it. I mean, we know that CBD works through the endocannabinoid system on very specific parts of human physiology. Specifically, that's sleep management, moods--specifically anxiety--and then small aches and pains. So CBD does enough on its own to, to not, kind of, have this, you know, this mythical status of almost, you know, you know, curing death, so to speak that you see everywhere on the Internet. So, you know, CBD serves a purpose for working in a health and wellness setting. It even serves a purpose in a clinical setting, as the FDA has, has approved it for use in certain clinical conditions. And so I would say that, that's kinda the biggest myth and they also you see it can regrow hair, which is also not true. That's less, that’s less of an issue. Dr. Barrett: It's funny it’s like, it's like “cures cancer!” “Regrows hair!” Yeah, you, you hear about that with all kinds of stuff. Pops right out. Now, what has the FDA actually approved CBD to treat?
03:40 CBD IS FDA APPROVED
Dr. Bright: So specifically CBD has approved to, has been approved to treat a very, a subset of very rare seizures. So these are also, often seen in pediatric populations. Dr. Barrett: Okay. Dr. Bright: And that drug is called Epadialects from GW Pharma. And it's used to treat at a certain, at a certain strength and a certain dosing regimen as you would expect, you know, standard FDA drugs. But it also serves a purpose at a much lower dose, a subclinical dose, for the health and wellness sector. And that, that's what the products that we produce at Wild Health. Dr. Barrett: Got it. What now, we asked about the beginning of this, beginning of my question was about myth. What's the, what's the latest, hottest study that's come out about potential use for CBD or something that it can actually do that you've seen evidence for recently?
04:25 CBD RESEARCH IS INCREASING
Dr. Bright: So I mean, I say, the current studies...so the, how CBD works in the body is a complex question that is under current scientific inquiry, so we're still, kind of, learning. That's mainly because the research into CBD was very much prohibited for years because of its use in cannabis, which was illegal to be grown. This research that was done was done at Ole Miss University, and was only really done in support of the DEA. So just in the last four or five years, we've really been able to bring CBD and espec, specifically CBD not in an isolated form, but in a full-spectrum form, to a, to a research setting, so to speak. And so the areas that we're very excited about are its, its effects on, as an anxiolytic. So helping with anxiety and other, other mood disorders we find to be very interesting. But really we see that in a, in what we would consider a full-spectrum cannabis product, so that’s CBD along with the other cannabinoids. Dr. Barrett: Okay, and so you're seeing stuff with a full-spectrum that you don't see with like a pure isolate of the, of the CBD itself.
05:30 CBD HELPS MAINTAIN HOMEOSTASIS
Dr. Bright: Correct. So we're seeing that and also we're seeing that at, kind of, lower doses. So where you may have to use a higher dose of just pure CBD, we have a full-spectrum product that not only has the full set of cannabinoids, but also has a number of other terpenes, phytonutrients, other things from the cannabis plant that we find that have a salutary health benefit. That really leads to a, a very nice, high-quality product that can help in some of these areas. And, you know, we know that the cannabinoid system is very much involved with maintaining homeostasis in the body across many different systems. And that's where we, kind of, hoped to use our, our CBD products for in the wellness setting.
06:05 THE HUMAN BODY HAS CB RECEPTORS
Dr. Barrett: So it's interesting. A lot of people don't realize that we have an endocannabinoid signaling system in the human body. And, and I was doing some brief investigation into it. There’s CB1 and CB2 receptors in the body, is that correct? And they both work on different things. Am I, am I... Dr. Bright: Yep. Dr. Barrett: Okay. Dr. Bright: Yep, you're, you're 100% correct. So, the endocannabinoid sys, endocannabinoid system is one of those interesting systems in that we found the exogenous system--so the cannabinoids from the cannabis plant--about 50 years before we actually found the receptors that they were interacting with in the body, that CB1 and CB2. Dr. Barrett: That’s cool. Dr. Bright: So, rare in that sense. CBD was isolated in the 40’s and THC a little bit later. But so the endocannabinoid system, CB1 CB2, as you said, are the receptors and there are two effector molecules. One is called anandamide. That's the one most likely you'll see as associated with runner's high, kind of gives that... Dr. Barrett: No way. Dr. Bright: And then... Dr. Barrett: Okay. ‘Cause I... Dr. Bright:...2AG. Dr. Barrett: Okay. 2AG, what's that one?
07:00 WHAT IS 2AG?
Dr. Bright: So that one is le, is less well-known, it interacts with CB1 and CB2. And both effector molecules interacting with their respective receptors CB1 and CB2. CB1 in the central nervous system. And CB, CB2 more in the immune system and the gut. Dr. Barrett: Interesting. Dr. Bright:...are all involved in maintaining, they’re neurotransmitters, but they're all involved in maining homeostasis across sleep, appetite, pain, inflammation, sometimes they go together obviously. Dr. Barrett: Yeah. Dr. Bright: And then certain, certain mood issues. And so we're still learning much about this system. And then also learning about how obviously THC and cannabinoids, CBD and other cannabinoids--there are about 11 others--also interact with this system. Dr. Barrett: So we've barely scratching the surface, it sounds like... Dr. Bright: Correct. I mean that, not only are we barely scratching, scratching the surface here in this, in this, kind of, brief discussion, but we're just scratching the surface from the research perspective. Dr. Barrett: Yeah, that's what I mean. I, I did a Master's in Science and we were looking at nitric oxide synthase pathway and everybody was like, oh, nitric oxide, it's not a cell-signaling molecule or whatever. Now it turns out, it, it's a, it’s a big one. And I feel like that, I feel like that's kinda, that's kinda happening with CBD. And it's, it's, it's pretty cool because some of the things directly relate to what I do as a plastic surgeon. You know, I have a lot of patients that undergo surgery, they're anxious before surgery. And then after surgery, they have pain and what do I prescribe them? Well, I prescribe them Norcos which is opioid-based pain medication, which I think is horrible. And I, I talked to Dr. Dawson about it. And where I, I, I love about CBD is that it helps alleviate some of the dependence on the opioid pain medication. And not, not only is that good for my patients, but I think it's good nationwide. Have you seen any, any evidence--I haven't been able to find any--have you seen any evidence about CBD helping with, like sur, acute surgical pain and relieving that?
08:45 CBD AND SURGICAL PAIN
Dr. Bright: So with acute surgical pain, we're talking in like probably the 24 to 48-hour range... Dr. Barrett: Yeah. Dr. Bright:...some of the, you know, again, CBD and cannabinoids are very much involved in homeostasis. So that's, kind of, maintaining balance. Surgery takes you out of balance. It’s a very dramatic interaction. And so, as you noted, going into that situation, reduction in anxiety, helping manage sleep up to, up to the surgical intervention is also very helpful. So you're gonna have the best state of mind entering into what is a dramatic intervention at some points. And again, immediate, immediately post-surgery, you, there in, may be a need for some of these, we'll call them, just for lack of a better term, heavy-duty, kind of, kind of, painkillers. Dr. Barrett: Yeah. Dr. Bright: But after that immediate acute setting as the body starts to, kind of, return to homeostasis, that's where cannabinoid molecules, and CBD specifically, can really come in to help alleviate that dependence on let's say, opioids, in this case. Where you are having, not necessarily a need, you still need to, have a need for reduction in anxiety and reduction in pain, but you don't need these, these heavy-duty painkillers. And so working on that small aches and pains and then helping, even you may, maybe you just reduce the opioids and bring on some of the CBD to help manage that pain, is the oth, other area it works. So we are actually located in Kentucky, where it's a great place to grow CBD, and we also have a large opioid epidemic here. And so we have a lot of empirical evidence, I can't point to a specific research paper, but we have a lot of working with clinics here helping reduce opioid dependence when it's not directly related to a, to a pain intervention and as it becomes more of a dependence. Because CBD can take on that role. And then it, you know, we're talking about, kind of, sublingual ingestion of the oil as well. And you can also have topical benefits. They've started to find as they look more closely, CB1 and CB2--more CB2--in, in skin and other assorted peripheral nerves. And so we find great benefit with using the oil that we make on, topical, now you don’t want, you don’t want any open wounds, you want it to be closed. Dr. Barrett: Right. Dr. Bright:...using it as a massage oil to help break up scar tissue. It also brings some targeted topical pain relief has also been of, quite of use . Dr. Barrett: Is there, is there any evidence on that right now any, any, kind of, studies on the topical use?
11:05 TOPICAL USE OF CBD
Dr. Bright: So topical use is very interesting. The studies are, the studies are, I, still in, in progress. We're doing a few here at the University of Kentucky. Because heretofore most of the work has been done on high doses of CBD, or isolated cannabinoids in cell culture animal models and then, and, and human. To be fair, without the finding of these receptors in, in skin and peripheral nerves is relatively new to the point where we still have discussions with, you know, neuroscientists that, you know, they don't understand how could this possibly work on the skin? Dr. Barrett: Yeah. Dr. Bright: Or in a, in a topical man, manner. And I don't necessarily, I can’t point you directly to how it works but I can point you to dozens of, if not hundreds of patients, who had good, good results so... Dr. Barrett: Well, a spa that I go to to get a massage here. It's an Equinox--it’s a gym. And they just recently started carrying a CBD topical, the massage oil. And they're like, do you want to add this on, you know? So I was like, all right, let me try it out, you know? And I did that and I felt great afterwards. And I've had massages without it. And then I had a massage with the CBD. And I just did a tri, you know, a Ironman Triathlon. And, and, you know, I was kind of beat up in it. I, I think it made a difference. Of course, that's not a scientific study, or whatever. But that's why I was curious to see if there's actually some evidence and, and, and if so, I mean, if not, I'm sure there will be soon. Hopefully. Dr. Bright: Yeah, I mean, like I said, all of this is in, is in, is an active inquiry. And obviously the FDA wants more studies on this. Dr. Barrett: Yeah. Dr. Bright: Helps combat all that, you know we talked about earlier, the myths that, that exist out there. And so you know, you can use the, the sublingual oils that we make at Wild Health, also as a topical, if you know, you wanted a massage oil, as well as we're about ready to launch probably here in the early part of 2020 a, a line of topicals as well that includes massage oil, lotions and then also a balm. Dr. Barrett: Well sign me up. Dr. Bright:...to fill out the lines, we're seeing more of these benefits from the topical side. Dr. Barrett: Fantastic. Now, tell me more about Wild Health specifically and, and from, from your perspective, we talked to Dr. Dawson about a lot of the things that makes Wild Health, I think, a superior product. From your perspective, what do you think is, is, is great about Wild Health CBD and your products?
13:15 WHY WILD HEALTH IS THE BEST
Dr. Bright: So we think, or our focus mainly has, is on a producing the cleanest purest product that we can. So we work with a, what we think is the best extraction method. So we use cryogenic ethanol. This we feel produces the most, or the product is most closely related to the actual natural plant. You know, we've been using cannabis for thousands of years for medical purposes. We didn't always know why. But, you know, individuals have been using it for that reason. And we feel that a cryogenic ethanol, which is a very gentle extraction process, reproduces the natural makeup of the different molecules we're interested in from the plant most closely. There, and then from there, we do, we do work with our farmers from seed to shelf so we're there when they plant, we’re there when they harvest. We help them throughout the season to produce a, a clean product, no pesticides, glyphosate free, you know, using clean soil lack, lacking heavy metals. And then we test throughout the process. So we do end-to-end testing, in-process testing, release testing. Currently over and above what is, well it’s currently unregulated market by the FDA, but we go above and beyond to make sure that we have a clean, pure product and so, you know... Dr.Barrett: I think people, people need to know that. It, it's, there's so many CBD products out there that you do not know what you're getting. And that's, that's what I, when I first heard about your guys’ company and I did some research, I'm like, wow, like, these guys are above and beyond in terms of what they're putting out there. And unfortunately, there's no, you know, I mean, there's a few websites out there about good CBD and whatnot, but there's no like standardization. There's no, there's no, like, rating system out there. You know, and, and I think it's, it's, how do even people find out about CBD? They can't. And so I found out for you guys about word, through word of mouth, and another podcast that I listen to and I was just, like, wow, this stuff is light years better.
15:05 NO REGULATED MARKET
Dr. Bright: I mean you, correct, there's, there's currently no regulated market and there's certainly a regulated market for just isolated CBD. I mean, you can buy, you know, you, across all 50 states you're legally, legally allowed to possess isolated CBD. You can have someone in their basement mixing up CBD and coconut oil and selling it out, out their garage. So... Dr. Barrett: I've got a funny joke about that, like we, you know, I tell my patients it’s, like, if, if someone's trying to do your buttock injections in their garage, you probably want to run the other direction. And probably the same is true with CBD. Dr. Bright: Yep, yeah. And so I think, you, what we see, the number one thing that we see when we're looking around on the Internet is that if information about third-party testing, and how the product’s formulated, and what's exactly in it is not readily, readily available on the website, that's a big red flag. Dr. Barrett: Yeah. Dr. Bright: Even if you're as generous as you can be in that situation and just say, well, perhaps these individuals do not know, that's a red flag in and of itself. Putting aside any sort of issues that would be more negative than just ignorance in that particular aspect. So, you know, you, make sure you see all your testing upfront, you should see testing before you buy, you shouldn’t have to buy anything to see what, what's in it. And then you just have to, kind of, find providers and individuals involved with a brand that you, that you trust.
16:20 NERVE REGENERATION
Dr. Barrett: Now you also do some work with a, a therapeutic molecule, molecule capable of regenerating damaged neurons in spinal cord injury and multiple sclerosis. Is that completely separate than CBD or is, does CBD have a role for any, kind of, regenerative capabilities? Dr. Bright: So that specific molecule that you're, they're referencing is, is completely separate. So that, that's actually a biotech startup company that I have done in San Diego, so just down the road from you all. Looking at actually unleashing the body's natural potential for regeneration. So you have a central nervous system insult such as MS or spinal cord injury, the, the breakdown of the structural tissue around the neurons release a lot of inhibition of regeneration. So we have a molecule that we think works to, to limit that. CBD itself, in high doses, has been shown in, in, in tissue culture in some animal models to potentially have some regenerative effects. That's a long way from the clinic. And if anything, again, getting back to CBD and endocannabinoid system... Dr. Barrett: Yeah. Dr. Bright:...it’s main effect is probably going to be restoring homeostasis in those areas so that the body's natural regenerative capacity can take over.
17:40 HOW CBD IS HELPING?
Dr. Barrett: So that's my question is we have these receptors in our body, we have our own natural endocannabinoids. And how is CBD actually helping, right? Is it, is it just kind of like, we're, we're kinda lower and some of the endocannabinoids in our own system, and we're actually providing more of it? Or do we actually really know how CBD actually works in our bodies when we, when we supplement with it because obviously we have some endocannabinoids, right? So how does it, how does it actually work? Dr. Bright: So putting on my, my, my cynical scientist’s hat, the actually...we don't quite know yet, but the most recent research indicates that CBD acts as a, acts in a way that prevents the breakdown of our actual endocannabinoid effective molecules--that’s anandamide and 2AG. So by limiting the breakdown of those molecules, they're able to persist longer in, in the body and then continue to interact with CB1 and CB2 and have those positive effects. Dr. Barrett: Okay. Dr. Bright: Again anan, anandamide is, is that, that runner's high-type molecule, that, kind of, can help regulate some of those systems. That's in contrast to, let's say, THC, which we know directly binds CB1 and starts to have some of those psychoactive, psychoactive effects. That's, you know, get, getting high, so to speak. Dr. Barrett: Yeah. Dr. Bright: And we also know that CB1, CBD and THC are directly antagonistic against each other. For instance, if you have a 50-50 mix of CBD and THC, you will have a lower high psychoactive effect than you would have if just you have pure THC. So that's something in the, in the legal states, is, is of interest as well, as, as we're starting to, kind of, see legalization spread across the country. Dr. Barrett: Okay, so THC and CBD both work in the same realm. They just work differently. THC actually binds to the receptors, you're saying? And then CBD actually prevents the breakdown of our own natural endocannabinoids. So... Dr. Bright: Yep, that is our current understanding. Subject to change at the next, at the next research paper. But I mean, well, like I said, I'm, I’m, I'm being probably too cynical with my scientist hat on here, but you know, we're, we’re learning more every day and, and that's what we're seeing currently in our animal models and then as some of our, our, our cell, cell culture models.
19:50 IS DEPENDENCY AN ISSUE?
Dr. Barrett: Is there, if people are tak, taking CBD and then they stopped taking it, are they, is there, is there problematic, problem with withdrawal? Or is there dependency that happens when you take CBD for a long period of time and then you stop taking it? Dr. Bright: So we have not seen and I've seen no reports and literature regarding dependency of CBD. Again because it is focusing on maintaining the body's natural balance. It's not trying to push you one way or the other. Dr.Barrett: Okay. Dr.Bright: So ie. if you're pushed too far one way, let's use caffeine as an example, you know, something that a lot of people have withdrawal-like symptoms from. You know, there you're pushing the body into a different state. And when you go back into your, it’s your natural balance, the body's like, hey, I want to be back where I was, and you start to have those withdrawal symptoms to put it somewhat, somewhat lightly. CBD, focusing on maintaining that natural balance already, doesn't look to exhibit those effects. So we don't see any dependence, we don't see withdrawal. You can have some tolerance, just like any molecule that you take. Which can be, you can either address by taking more of it, you can address by cycling it. Like any molecule, you wish to take it only when you need it. There's no real need to keep things on board if you are not of, not of need of it. So, you know, that, that's very much...with working with potentially some of your patients’ pre-, pre- and post-op rather than directly, you know, all the time so to speak. But we have individuals who have a lot of sleep issues and they, it works very well for them on a, on a regular, regularly routine basis. Dr. Barrett: Got it. I mean honestly, it seems like one of those miracle drugs out there. I, I say that about Botox, you know? Because Botox it's, like, it's got, it's, there's, it's got properties that have all been beneficial and we haven't found a negative really for it. But CBD it just, it seems like that could be, it seems to me that it's, it's kind of a, one of those products that it's, kind of, a win-win. And it's a lot, a lot less problematic than, you were, certain things like caffeine or alcohol or Advil, even. Ibuprofen, you know? So... Dr. Bright: Yeah, definitely. I mean, then that's why we, we push to talk about it more in the wellness space, the supplement space, then as opposed to in the, in the drug space. Now at, at high dose levels, it does have clinical effect and those can be quite, those can be honestly quite miraculous in themselves, especially in some of these pediatric populations who may have hundreds of seizures a day. High dose CBD can really help them. But as a, you know, a natural day-to-day supplement, or, or wellness-type molecule, it seems to have a lot of benefit and, and limited or to, you know, be, to be most appropriate about it, limited negative effects. Dr.Barrett: Exactly. And Dr. Dawson mentioned possible anti-inflammatory properties. Have you, is there, is there actually any evidence to support that?
22:30 ANTI-INFLAMMATORY PROPERTIES
Dr. Bright: So one, we know that the endocannabinoid system works a lot with the immune system, gut, inflammation, specifically the CB2 receptor. And so again, CBD helps maintain that homeostasis as well as--we've seen that in tissue culture models as well as in some animal models. On the human side, we see that mainly in some of your autoimmune-related gut, IBS and other sort of issues like that, we see good effect there with those populations. And so the, the anti-inflammatory area is something of great interest to us and could really move it, could be another use for in those clinical settings. Dr. Barrett: Yeah, fantastic. Yeah, I mean I, I, I take your product every day. Dr. Dawson’s... Dr. Bright: I appreciate that. Dr. Barrett: Yeah. It’s, I think it's, and I've tried a bunch of other stuff. I, when I went to Vancouver, I went to, like, a, I had to go to a, a smoke shop or something to try to find some CBD because I wasn't sure if Canada even allowed me to transport it, you know, to...to...and you know, there was some crazy stuff out there. And I don't even sure if it worked or not. And so I was glad to come back home so I can take the Wild Health CBD. Can people in Canada order Wild Health CBD from you guys? Or do you know if there's any international shipping you guys can do?
23:50 INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING
Dr. Bright: Um, so currently, so they could certainly order it. Usually the problem is they get, they get hit with some decent taxes on the Canadian side of the border. So we, we can get it, we can get it to them. Dr. Barrett: Yeah. Dr. Bright: But it's not always as, as easy once it gets to the border, and then goes from the border to them. So at the moment so, still something that the, we'll have to wait for our, our international trade to work, work those situations out. Dr. Barrett: Got it. All right, so back to Wild CBD and what you're working on specifically, is there any kind of new focus that you guys are really working on right now or latest breakthrough that's about to come out or any hot news that you want to share with us? Dr. Bright: Well, so as I mentioned, briefly a little bit earlier, you know, bringing out some more of these topical products is, is of great interest. We, you know, we're having oil, we're having a lotion, we're having a balm. All of them we see different effects. For arthritis, mainly osteo-based, but also a little rheumatoid-based. We're seeing great effects on hands and ankles...there. Our balm is working really well for basically, knees and elbows, more peripheral joints. Dr. Barrett: Okay. Dr. Bright: So that's some, that's an area that we're seeing, kind of, you get that more targeted effect. And so we're excited to, kind of, launch those here in the first little bit. And then we're also looking to do, we're trying as best we can to work CBD in, in with other beneficial molecules. So we have a sleep blend that is currently out. Dr. Barrett: Yeah. I, I looked at that on your website, and it, it's out of stock. Sometimes... Dr. Bright: Oh it shouldn't be, I'll check with the production guys. Dr. Barrett: No, but it's a hot item. Yeah. So what is special about yours...what is special about your sleep blend?
25:25 SLEEP BLEND
Dr. Bright: So for that, we, we add lavender and melatonin and then CBD. So we know CBD is working on sleep and with two other sleep-promoting molecules. We see it, you know, I know the hot word is adaptogen these days, but you see it useful because it helps individuals who need help falling asleep, it helps them. And it also helps individuals who have problems waking up in the middle of night, so it seems to help them as well. We've seen, we've seen really good results with that with some of our, some of our PTSD folks. Which a lot of our military, first responder groups that work with us as well.
26:00 PTSD AND CBD
Dr. Barrett: That's really curious. Yeah, PTSD is a huge problem. Is, is there actually any evidence that’s saying that CBD can be used to treat PTSD? Dr. Bright: There is, there is no official clinical research on that. A lot of anecdotal research. We work with a lot of veterans groups, we work a lot of veteran farmers here in Kentucky as well. Dr. Barrett: Right. Dr. Bright: And so we have a lot of good anec, anecdotal evidence that it, it works well in that population, for many of the things that it works well for, you know, routinely. So that's anti-anxiety, sleep management, and then small aches and pains. Dr. Barrett: Well, great. Well, Dr. Bright I, again, I can't thank you guys enough for, for being on the show. And again, you guys have graciously, graciously extended us a, a promo code for our listeners. It's Dr. Barrett, D-R-B-A-R-R-E-T-T, and go to the WildHealth.com website, plug that in and you get a 20% discount on any of their, any of their products as far as I understand. And, and honestly, it's, it's been the best product that I've come across. It's helped me with my sleep. It's helped me with, like, some of my aches and pains and stuff like that. With, with surgery and training and exercise. And I think it's, it's just so unknown. I wish, I wish more people would know about it. And I appreciate you coming on the show to kind of help spread the word. Dr. Bright: Well, I really appreciate you having us on, we really appreciate your support of, of us and the product. And you know, what we're looking for is, is more people to help spread the word on, on what, you know, what we think is a great molecule. We'd love it if you’d choose our molecule, but really we’re most interested in getting this out there from a, you know, a pure, clean perspective, and helping groups and more natural remedy to some of these situations they have. Dr. Barrett: Yeah, absolutely. Dr. Bright, thank you, you guys are doing it right and you deserve to be rewarded for that. I hope, I hope the best for you guys and I just speak nothing but high things about your product. So thank you. Dr. Bright: Thank you guys, really appreciate it. Dr. Barrett: Okay, thank you. Bye-bye. Thank you for tuning into our podcast. If you liked today's podcast, don't forget to share, rate, review and subscribe. Also, find out if plastic surgery is right for you by using our virtual consultation at DrDanielBarrett.com/virtual-consultation. See you soon.